This is what new politics looks like

Poblano over at www.fivethirtyeight.com has an interesting post up today examining the frequency of negative hits against the three remaining Presidential candidates, McCain, Clinton, and Obama.  The metric used is press releases by each of the candidates, the DNC and the RNC.  The differences are quite stark with Barack Obama both sustaining the highest total number of negative attacks and delivering the lowest number of negative attacks.

The current tallies, from September 2007 to May 2008 are:  226 attacks on Obama, 196 attacks on McCain, and 56 attacks on Clinton.  Meanwhile Obama has delivered 19 attacks compared to McCain's 27 and Clinton's 144.  But, the real key, I believe is this statement from Pablano:

The Obama campaign does very, very little attacking (quite possibly too little), at least in the form of press releases. That doesn't mean that they won't go negative, but they prefer to wait for an opportunity to counter-punch and/or to do so somewhat surreptitiously. But what they won't usually do is to try and dictate the course of a news cycle with an attack.

Emphasis mine.

I believe that this is what Obama's "new politics" is all about.  In a word, going negative without appearing to go negative.  The hypocrisy of selling yourself in this way doesn't really bother me.  And, if it is true, I think it is brilliant and is probably the next generation of political strategy.  "Negative politicking" is frustrating partly because it is unseemly, but mostly because it works despite its unseemliness.  The ability to go negative without appearing to go negative has the same impact, without fewer risks.

That said, one potential advantage the Clinton team would have over Obama in a general election is that they do "try and dictate the course of the news cycle" as Poblano puts it.  This is something George Bush did so well for 5 1/2 years.  It is the "tried and true" way of winning elections and does indeed represent the politics of the late 1980s through the present.  

Do you really believe that Obama's NAFTA-gate story coming out just before Ohio was an accident?  How about Jeremiah Wright's comments coming out when they did?  Is it a coincidence that Mark Penn alluded to the "kitchen sink" strategy just days before all of the dukey began hitting the fan for the Obama campaign?  I don't think so.  And I think this is something Clinton would continue to do very effectively against McCain if she somehow eeks out the nomination.

On the other hand, Obama's campaign has been about making himself look as though he is above these sorts of tactics.  This is another well-tested campaign strategy which is quite often ineffective.  But, I believe that his real strategy has been to distance himself from attacks while quietly fostering a media environment which is sympathetic to his campaign.  Most likely, we'll get a chance to see if he can pull it off.

Link to the post by Poblano:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/i ncoming.html



Display:


Obama is going against another Democrat (2.00 / 1)

Haven't you been paying attention to his smackdowns with McCain?


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:22:20 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

I don't think the strategy is entirely calculated and I don't think it is dishonest, but yes, there is a touch of guile to it.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it passive-aggressive, but I expect others would.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:23:13 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

yeah, there's a whole other layer to it that I haven't touched on.  Basically he had no option but to be the opposite of Hillary Clinton.  He had zero chance of winning last fall and his only shot was to convince people that he was bringing something new to the table.  The only way to do that was to run a completely stand-up campaign.  I would like to believe it isn't quite as stand-up as it appears to be, however, because that probably won't work as well against Repubs.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 2)

You ignore the fact that he's behaving pretty much the way he has behaved his entire adult life.

It seems cynical both the way people assume it's all an act and in the way people assume that it isn't what voters want.

It's no fluke he just took out two of the most powereful Democrats for the Democratic nomination.  

Remember that Independents outnumber everyone at this point.  Once he gets a clear shot at campaigning to those people, we're going to redraw the electoral map.

"He had zero chance of winning last fall and his only shot was to convince people that he was bringing something new to the table."

Did he change something to run as he has?  Is it impossible for anything new to ever be 'brought to the table?'

Why do you buy the conventional wisdom that there must be deceit behind Obama's public personna?  How could we ever get an honest politician when we mistake cynicism for skepticism?  Does it seem safer just to assume the worst of someone first, even if there isn't evidence for that?  

Doesn't it make sense to appreciate our candidates as their words and actions have revealed them while remaining vigilant?  

Or, as a fine American once said, "Cynicicism is a sorry form of wisdom."  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

i hope you are correct, but i suspect you are not.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know (2.00 / 2)

I've met the man though.  I've been around lots of top level politicians because I'm an Iowan and I'm into it.  I've seen politicians as straightforward and honest as Obama but never one with the whole package like he brings.  Never one with the talent to bring the thing home.


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know (2.00 / 1)

I don't contest that he is an honorable man who is behaving in an ethical way.

I'm just saying his advisors would be out of their flippin' minds not to milk that for everything it is worth.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha, indeed! (2.00 / 1)

If I was a political advisor, honesty, intelligence and personal appeal is exactly what I would hope to be able to milk in a campaign.

I swear there are times Axelrod seems like a kid in a candy store.  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (2.00 / 3)

going negative without appearing to go negative.

so as long as one camp is dishonest about going negative, but really is - that's okay with you?  v. strange.  


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:23:15 PM EST

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (2.00 / 2)

That's what strikes me as odd, too. In some ways its MORE cynical that simply running an old fashinoed LBJ style assault.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (none / 0)

I'll agree that it is cynical.  This diary was entirely a comment on the tactics.  If the Obama campaign can actually pull it off, it will be brilliant.  This can't be the first time someone has tried this.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (2.00 / 2)

But you did acknowledge that there was hypocrisy and that it didn't bother you? That to me seems counter to Obama's message of hope and new politics.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:33:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (2.00 / 2)

i think we disagree on what hope and change mean.  the tactics don't bother me so much.  it's what a person brings to the office once they're in.  i always liked bill clinton despite his obvious triangulations because he brought extremely competent governance to the white house.  i also don't blame hillary for her attacks, in fact i complement them in the diary.  but i think the policies and style of hillary clinton hearken back rather than take us forward.

i know this is a cynical diary.  but i'm trying to keep it real.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (2.00 / 1)

I recommned this for its honesty, but it strikes me as Macciavellian, I.e. it's not HOW you get there but what you do once you are there.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: unseemliness is in the eye of the beholder. (none / 0)

They are still politicians. I'ts obvious they both go negative.

No other way he can win an election.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

rec'd of course...
However,;
facts are seldom appreciated on MyDD
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:23:51 PM EST

Assuming this to be true (2.00 / 3)

Why is this a good thing? isn't this just doing the same thing but in a way that is harder to detect? And does it make a central premise of Obama's new politics, just a part of the old politics with a shiny new wrapper?


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:25:16 PM EST

Re: Assuming this to be true (none / 0)

What exactly is the new politics supposed to be? Disagreement is entirely the point. But Obama is refraining from personal attacks on a daily basis and he is not making those attacks the focus of his campaign. That IS a new kind of politics and it is a contrast from his opponent's campaign.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Assuming this to be true (2.00 / 2)

I have no idea what this "new politics" is supposed to be. Apparently, no one, not even Obama does, as it appears to be a slogan designed to get votes while reaping the benefits of negative attacks nonetheless.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Assuming this to be true (2.00 / 1)

brilliant.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Assuming this to be true (none / 0)

It is focusing on policies and not character issues. Attacking only in defense. But you're reading way too much into it.

I think that you have unreasonable expectations for him. It would be impossible for any modern political candidate to stay on the side of clean. You can either try to play as clean as you can and play smart or you can go dirty and just play fast and loose. Obama is trying to do the former. I do think he's having to compromise some of the principles he'd like to have upheld, but that's politics. It makes people dirty. Look what Karl Rove's campaign style turned John McCain into.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Assuming this to be true (none / 0)

yeah, i think this is a good point.  the exact phrase in the diary were "fostering a media environment favorable to his campaign".  i don't see anything wrong with that.  and this may be what ultimately separates him from the old-school "above the fray" politicians who had a genuine disdain for the uglier side of politics.  obama, in fact, may share this disdain, but he apparently has a campaign staff who understand how to get the message out without directly destroying your opponent.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 2)

ahhh yes. the hypocrisy of claiming no negativity while spewing it under the table.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:25:46 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

there are worse things than being hypocritical.  particularly in politics.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

for a man who runs on principle?

hardly. he betrays his message, while putting up a pretty front to distract from the hypocrisy.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

well, a few things.  if you look at the raw numbers, Obama is running a much more positive campaign.  it's just that i suspect that's not the whole story.    in fact, i'm hoping that it's not the whole story because if so, it probably won't work.

i know we're all aghast when a politician is found to be a hypocrite.  but i don't think you can possibly answer all of the demands of political life without contradicting yourself at least a few times.  viewed the right way, that's called hypocrisy.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

Running a more positive campaign according to WHOM? Poblano? And isn't that just a subjective opinion, anway. And he only analyzed one portion of the campaign, the press release. A true analsysis of who was running the least negative camapign would look at EVERTYING, radio ads, tv ads, mailers, debates, candidate statements, surrogate statements etc.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 2)

im not aghast, only when a certain politician claims he's different than typical washington politics. Washington politics basically is hypocrisy in itself.

Because of the 'wahington outsider' mantra assumed by Obama, he essentially allows us to hold him to a different standard, a higher standard than those 'ol typical Washington Insiders'.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

what does obama bring to the table?

no scott mcclellans.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

what?


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

the democrats have been the party of flaccid supine collusion for the past eight years.  the reason hillary is not currently mopping the floor with obama is because she is connected in people's minds with that period and obama is not.  what he brings to the table is that he is not from that group that has had their lunches regularly eaten by the repubs and rolled over when they were supposed to fight for us.  i realize scott mcclellan worked for george bush, but do you really think he was the only person in dc at that time who knew bush was full of shit?  i suspect a lot of dems knew it and were too scared to do anything about it.  hillary may or may not have been one of them.  but, fairly or not, she is connected with them.  people want something new and something different.  if that means the tactics are sometimes cynical, well, so be it.  the old tactics were also cynical, but it was just more overt.


by the mollusk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

If barack claims he's above the fray. then I will hold him to his claim. He claims he is different. I will hold him to his claim.

He has a lot to live up to.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

I dunno. I think hypocrisy is one of the worst things that people politically. In politics, it can cost an election, more than the actual underlying offense.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

I find it more likely that the Obama camp simply understands that direct attack negative campaigning in the traditional sense in the primary, particularly in a primary against a white woman, would be viewed very poorly. It is the same reason the Clinton campaign acts like war hawks - they know there is a portion of the population that won't trust a woman to lead the country unless she acts tougher than the men in the race. Which may also have something to do with the high level of direct negative attacks leveled by the Clinton campaign against Obama, and the sucking up to McCain by Clinton.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:28:13 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

Why does everyone ignore the fact that Obama has never run like that against anyone?  There is this assumption that they just painted some face on him for this particular campaign that would fit the times.

Look at his history, his entire political hisory and it's pretty consistent actually.  Why are people chosing to ignore the reality of a popular Democratic candidate in order to think worse of him?

It seem like people are just so beaten down any more.  Cynicism doesn't keep you safe from bad things.  It tends to bring the bad things you fear.  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:50:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

Just to clarify, I think the Obama camp is doing the right thing here, and has done so in the past. re-reading my comment after your critique, I can see that I wasn't very clear.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

Obama takes the rope-a-dope or killdeer approach to this stuff. McCain is beating his little chest out, tossing out all his cards. Going after Obama on a variety of issues. And Obama stays quiet, letting McCain keep talking and his strategists deliver short responses that egg the other side on.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:31:20 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

I suspect McCain will stick to issue attacks while the RNC engages in the sub-rosa character assassination the Obama campaign has specialized in. That is another one of the big differences between the primary and the general, Clinton did not want to join Obama in the politics of personal destruction, the RNC is all about it.


by souvarine on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did you just say (none / 0)

Clinton didn't want to join Obama in the politics of personal destruction?

Do you equate someone beating Hillary for the nomination 'politics of personal destruction?'  Seriously, that stuff is just weird.  Irony times 100.  

And you're off on the McCain thing too.  He's been running around doing the 'He's a bright young man with no experience' bit on Obama.  He's been a perfect jackass already.


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did you just say (none / 0)

Experience and judgment are legitimate issues in a presidential campaign. As are issue differences.


by souvarine on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How about questioning someone's church? (none / 0)

"All I know is I wouldn't have stayed in that church."

I guess my mom can never run for President now because she's stayed in the Catholic church in spite of everything.

I guess everyone who belongs to a church is kind of in that boat because just about every church holds some freaky beliefs and many have some preachers who are a bit nutty.  

C'mon, you're just ignoring stuff because you don't want to deal with it.  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:52:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about questioning someone's church? (none / 0)

I'm an observant Catholic, but there are many Catholic churches I would not choose to attend. Neither I nor Father Pfleger represent the whole of Catholic thought, even the pope can propound mistaken doctrine.

The pastor of a church matters, how he runs it and what he teaches matters.


by souvarine on Thu May 29, 2008 at 07:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did you just say (none / 0)

Whether they are legitimate or aren't, they are issues of character and personal attacks by definition.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (none / 0)

What kind of personal attacks has Obama engaged in? The fact is, Clinton has always had issues with her character and Obama had very little to do with it. That's why she did worse when she went negative. Millions of people already HAD a negative image of Hillary. I feel that she never did enough to address or correct this issue.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu May 29, 2008 at 09:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's not kid around (2.00 / 1)

about who's been doing the "attacking". Poblano had this great break down today:




http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/i ncoming.html


by Tatan on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:48:50 PM EST

Why, why do you muddy the waters (none / 0)

with facts?  

Those facts just aren't fair and balanced enough.  They make Hillary look bad.  So you'd better include some 'facts' with those facts or you're just a hater.  


by Sun Dog on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why, why do you muddy the waters (2.00 / 1)

Except that they aren't "facts" per se - they are pictures of events laden with a ton of "assumptions". To me, the fact that he doesn't even INCLUDE the spoken remarks - starting oh about July 2007 as attacks makes this analysis artificial and self-serving.
For better or for worse, I have used the hillary campaign's attacktimeline.com as the basis for my view. (I can't seem to find a similar trail on barackobama.com - it probably wore some poor nerd out past his/her latte time to keep up)

by pan230oh on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's not kid around (none / 0)

how about citing a source not of the same site? otherwise I dont see how verfying the info, with more info from the same site does anything of certifying the results.


by alyssa chaos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:00:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 2)

"New politics" has never meant not going negative.

It means not playing "gotcha" politics. It means not trying to smear your opponent with lies. It means not swiftboating your opponent.

But why shouldn't we go negative on McCain. If he wins, he will be going negative on this country. Obama will attack McCain on the issues, as it should be.


by BlueGAinDC on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:55:14 PM EST

Take it with a grain of salt (or more) (2.00 / 3)

Not to knock Poblano, because he generally does a great job, but this was of necessity a very quick and dirty approach to measuring attacks.  He counted the number of times other candidates were mentioned in the headlines of press releases.  Two comments about that are relevant:

1. If a press release attacks another candidate, but doesn't include their name in the headline, its not counted.

2. A press release may mention another candidate in the headline but really not be an attack, ie: "Clarifying differences in Clinton and Obama health care plans."


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:01:31 PM EST

It's really not so new (none / 0)

This diary does the community a great service by placing this whole "meme" of negativity in campaigning in the light of history. As is often said, "to err is human, to really foul things up takes a computer" - All that our wonderful technology has done is AMPLIFY the frequency and virility of these attacks.
This first came to light for me in the Obama camp's tacit blessing of a 527 group's incessant papering of the state of Ohio with pamphlets on Hillary's stands on health care and NAFTA THAT WERE JUST PLAIN WRONG. He knew they were wrong, independent sources confirmed it, they kept coming anyway. Why would I trust someone like that?
Somewhere along the line, the Obama camp ought to be held responsible for calling Hillary Clinton a racist and doing so in such a way that this theme is mindlessly repeated without question. They also need to be held accountable for a lot of the talk about her only being in this game to serve herself. Once again, if you take your face out of the Kool-Aid jar, the preponderance of the evidence says nay.
I am most appreciative that this diarist named the Obama camp's favorite tactic -- accuse and deride your opponent of doing something that you have either done yourself or are about to do.
by pan230oh on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:03:40 PM EST

Re: This is what new politics looks like (2.00 / 1)

Heh.  All it takes is a cooperative media.  Throughout this campaign, Obama was able to make nasty attacks on Hillary's character and the media would still applaud the positive tone of his campaign; but even when Hillary said something positive about herself it was spun as a negative attack because, well, she's implying that Obama doesn't share those same qualities.

There's no "new politics" about it.  It's the twinkle in Reagan's eye all over again.  If you can pull it off, it's a mark of political skill and/or willingness by the media to play along, but it's certainly not something new we're inventing.

One thing I've noticed is that the McCain campaign seems much, much more aggressive (way over the top, on occasion) in labeling Obama as a negative attacker than Clinton ever was.  We'll see if Obama can continue working his magic.

I thought a telling episode was the time McCain suggested Obama was the candidate of Hamas, and when Obama finally got around to responding, the big story was that Obama had accused McCain of "losing his bearings" (supposedly an age reference).  I mostly think it was Obama's fault for not responding sooner, because by the time he did so, no one was thinking about the original attack any longer.  But either way, when someone accuses you of being the candidate of Hamas and it's YOU who ends up getting portrayed as the cheap-shot artist, that's not the outcome you were looking for.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:35:15 PM EST

Wright came out at the best possible time (none / 0)

for Obama.


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 29, 2008 at 04:54:54 PM EST


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